Faithful Safeguarding Podcast with Petros
Faithful Safeguarding is a short-form podcast dedicated to enhancing the safety and well-being of faith communities, focusing on providing insightful, expert-led discussions on safeguarding practices and addressing the unique challenges faced by faith-based organisations.
Topics include child protection, safer recruitment, creating a safeguarding culture, online safety, protecting vulnerable adults, disability and safeguarding, reporting and recovering from safeguarding incidents, risk management, and fostering diversity and inclusion.
Hosted by Madison Clarke from Petros, the podcast aims to raise awareness, educate, and foster a culture of proactive safeguarding among people within faith organisations.
DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed by guests within the content are solely the guest's and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of Petros or its affiliates.
Faithful Safeguarding Podcast with Petros
Ep 11 Series 1 Key Takeaway Review w/ Madison Clarke
Madison revisits key insights from the first five episodes of Faithful Safeguarding, highlighting how safeguarding within faith communities requires everyone's involvement, theological integration, clear boundaries, and inclusive practices that address power dynamics.
- Professor Jo Clarke establishes that safeguarding is everyone's responsibility, from church leaders to volunteers and cleaners
- Dr Marcus Pound shows how theological concepts like redemption and forgiveness can reshape safeguarding policies to be more compassionate and reflect scriptural teachings
- Father Justin Glynn challenges traditional views of disability and vulnerability, emphasising boundaries and belonging
- Di Gamage demonstrates how play and drama therapy empower children to communicate safeguarding concerns
- Anjum Mouj describes diversity, inclusion and belonging as "the holy trinity of safeguarding”, a crucial component of safeguarding. She goes on to discuss how power dynamics in hierarchical religious institutions often protect abusers rather than victims
Join us for part two where we'll explore criminal convictions, low-level concerns, abuse in faith communities, and the importance of volunteer engagement in safeguarding.
Connect with Petros:
Welcome to Faithful Safeguarding, the podcast dedicated to promoting safety and well-being within faith communities.
Speaker 1:I'm your host, madison Clark, from Petrox, a not-for-profit dedicated to safeguarding and protecting those most vulnerable in our communities. Each episode will bring you expert insights, real-world experiences and practical advice to help you implement effective safeguarding practices in your faith organization. Together, we can create environments where everyone feels safe, valued and protected. Thank you for joining us on this important journey. Now let's dive into today's episode. Hello and welcome to the Faithful Safeguarding Podcast. I'm your host, madison Clark, and in today's episode, we're doing something a little different. As we reach the end of the season, I'll be looking back at the conversations we've had so far, highlighting key insights, reflecting on challenges and drawing out the solutions shared by our brilliant guests.
Speaker 1:This is part one of our recap, where we'll revisit the first five episodes of the series. Each one offered a unique lens on safeguarding in faith context, whether through theological insight, lived experience or practical application. From building safeguarding cultures that include everyone to reimagining disability and empowering young voices, this episode uncovers how theology, boundaries and belonging shape safer faith communities. Our guests all agree that safeguarding involves everyone and is everyone's responsibility. So, whether you're new to the series or have been with us since episode one. This is a chance to reflect on the powerful themes that have emerged so far and to consider how they might shape your own safeguarding practice.
Speaker 1:Let's begin. The views and opinions expressed by guests on this podcast are solely that of the guests and do not represent the opinions and beliefs of the Petros organisation. So for episode one we had an introduction to safeguarding and faith communities by Professor Jo Clark. Professor Jo laid the foundation by detailing essential safeguarding principles for faith communities. She stressed the importance of safe recruitment, continuous training and robust reporting procedures, which help build a proactive safeguarding culture from the ground up.
Speaker 2:We recognise in our culture that safeguarding is everybody's responsibility, from the head of the church through to the person who drives the minibus, through to the volunteer who comes in and bakes cakes, through to the cleaner of the building.
Speaker 1:So Jo points out a really helpful challenge here that organisations may not have a culture that actually includes everyone when it comes to safeguarding and therefore individuals may not think that safeguarding is relevant to them at all.
Speaker 1:It's so important, as we highlighted in this episode, that safeguarding is every single person's responsibility and that everyone has a role to play in safeguarding.
Speaker 1:Therefore, everyone, no matter their role whether it's a volunteer, a cleaner, head of the organization, ceo everyone needs to be recruited and trained with safeguarding in mind. The more safeguarding is spoken about, the more vigilant as a community we can be and we can be aware of the risks and the safeguarding violations that can occur, and we can all help protect each other and ourselves. I think that Jo points out a really helpful challenge here that organisations should be aware of, which is that their culture may not include everyone when it comes to safeguarding and therefore individuals may not think that safeguarding is relevant to them. It's so important that within an organisation, within faith communities, we acknowledge that everyone has a role to play in safeguarding and therefore everyone whether that be a volunteer, a cleaner, a CEO needs to be recruited and then trained with safeguarding in mind. Also, the more that safeguarding is spoken about, the more vigilant, as a community, we can be aware of safeguarding breaches and therefore we can not only protect each other, but we can protect ourselves. When we think about safeguarding specifically within faith communities, we have to consider theology and scripture. Marcus Pound came on in episode two to talk about theology and safeguarding in faith communities, and he explored how integrating theological concepts like redemption, forgiveness and personal transformation can reshape safeguarding policies. His discussion really showed that when faith communities embrace these values, they foster a more compassionate and inclusive safeguarding framework.
Speaker 3:There's a great sense in which we need to address the culture in a much more holistic manner, because it's not just about policy, it's also about people and how they enact those policies, cultural impediments and how the culture facilitates.
Speaker 1:I think this shows that we cannot see a culture from just one angle. Everything's intersectional and it's all linked, and including theological doctrine in safeguarding within faith communities is really, really key, and it can also help engage people in safeguarding. I think we have to remember that we have priests who are so knowledgeable about scripture and theology and then when we're asking them to communicate safeguarding, if they can do that through a theological perspective, then not only will they feel more confident and able, but additionally, their parishioners will probably receive safeguarding information with much more ease. And it just shows how actually religious groups are really set up to deliver gold standard in safeguarding. When we think about how the church is designed to protect and to support the most vulnerable, that's what safeguarding is designed to do also, so they go hand in hand From a theological perspective.
Speaker 1:We were fortunate enough to have Father Justin Glynn come on the podcast, but he was coming to talk about safeguarding and disability. In episode three, father Justin challenged the traditional view of disability and safeguarding. He argues for an approach that respects individuals' unique needs by focusing on setting clear boundaries and creating also a sense of belonging, rather than simply viewing disability as a risk factor or a subsection of safeguarding.
Speaker 4:None of us is actually an isolate. We're all interdependent on one another, and that's where the belonging bit comes in, because boundaries and belonging is intended to take seriously the idea that we're all dependent on each other.
Speaker 1:It's intended to take seriously the idea that we're all dependent on each other. It's so important that we all have a sense of belonging within our communities, but also just as important is that we have boundaries that make us feel safe and protected. Something I loved about Father Justin's episode is when he spoke about the changing nature of vulnerability and power dynamics and how we tend to use the term vulnerable adult or adults at risks in safeguarding and think of it as a subsection or a group where actually we can all be vulnerable, and we can all, at times in our lives, be adults at risk, because vulnerability is such that it changes depending on the position, the individual circumstance at the time where they are, and therefore the safeguarding policies that include vulnerable adults quote unquote actually apply to everyone, and it's not just about us as a group protecting them as a group, it's about protecting ourselves and each other. I personally, and here at Petros, believe boundaries are so important to ensuring that we all belong and feel safe and protected. We actually have a managing professional boundaries training at Petros. You can understand your own and other people's boundaries within distant situations. I think it's important to consider as well when we think about boundaries and the individuals that we interact with, the differences that we all have whether that be disability, whether that be different neurodiversity and we also make sure that we educate people on these differences and how they actually are strengths and how they apply in different situations, so we can see individuals and understand all the factors that may be contributing to their own boundaries and how we can keep them safe.
Speaker 1:It's really great to have this conversation about vulnerability and adults at risk, but often when we think about safeguarding and boundaries, we think about safeguarding children. But how do we engage children in safeguarding? This is what Di Gamage came onto the podcast to talk about. In episode four, she demonstrated the power of engaging children in safeguarding directly through therapeutic methods. She explains how play and drama therapy enable children to communicate their experiences, underscoring that truly listening to children is the key to uncovering and addressing safeguarding concerns addressing safeguarding concerns.
Speaker 5:So for me, empowering a child starts from a very, very early age. So safeguarding is part of that process of helping a child to recognise and to be able to talk about and to name with someone who is safe to them if something is happening or they don't want something to happen, or they don't want something to happen or they don't feel comfortable with it. So it's fundamentally about empowering, but also not for adults to make children so irresponsible for their own safeguarding, which they cannot do.
Speaker 1:Di highlights the importance of empowering children. This is about educating children about safeguarding and also educating them about their own bodily autonomy, whilst also making sure we don't place all the responsibility of safeguarding on a child. As adults, we need to make sure that we are the ones protecting children and we are there to keep them safe, but it's also so important that we can make sure they feel empowered, especially when it comes to safeguarding. I think it's really crucial that we start education of safeguarding at a really early age. I know a lot of schools that are putting up posters to make sure that children are aware of safeguarding policies in a child-friendly and approachable way, putting up posters to show that there are different safe adults amongst the school or encouraging them to talk to the safe adults in their lives if they have a concern. I think it's so crucial that parents at home are also teaching children about their bodily autonomy, making sure they know the correct parts of their body and they know that their body is their own.
Speaker 1:Jo Clark, who is in episode one, she's a forensic psychologist who's worked in prisons and with working with offenders and also through research, we know that abusers will target children who don't have bodily autonomy, who don't have a safe adult they can talk to and who don't feel empowered. So if we can make sure that our children are empowered, we know that there's a greatly reduced risk of them having a safeguarding concern. It's not only important to make sure that children feel empowered in safeguarding, but that everyone does. We had Anjum Moore come on for episode five to talk about diversity, inclusion, belonging and safeguarding. Anjum emphasised that safeguarding policy should be dynamic, intersectional documents. She also explained that these policies must evolve to reflect the real lived experiences of marginalised groups, ensuring that every voice is heard and included in the safeguarding process.
Speaker 6:Diversity, inclusion and belonging. Well, that's the holy trinity of safeguarding. You know, if I can put it that way, in faith-based organizations, it's all about ensuring that people from all walks of life, whether they're from the Church of England, a Pentecostal congregation or a choir that turns up for every wedding, feel safe, feel respected. Safeguard isn't just about don't do bad things. It's about recognising the varied backgrounds of people, where they come from, ensuring that nobody feels like an outsider in God's house.
Speaker 1:Anjan put this so beautifully the holy trinity of safeguarding that everyone should feel included and respected within their faith communities, and that policies need to reflect the real lived experience of everyone within a community, looking at things intersectionally, such as their gender, race, social, economic background and also the differences that we have in faith even within the same faith communities. Anjum also spoke about the power dynamics that have proved to be a problem in some faith communities and the solutions that we need to tackle that.
Speaker 6:You know it's like the 12 days of Christmas. Instead of getting pipers piping or drummers drumming, you're more likely to get the clergy protecting the clergy, bishops protecting bishops and everybody else downplaying the problem. Power dynamics, particularly in male-dominated hierarchical religious institutions, create significant safeguarding challenges and the protection of children. The Catholic Church sexual abuse crisis spanned decades and continents, and the protection of abusers was prioritised over the protection of victims.
Speaker 1:Andrew really clearly highlights here how, when we're not inclusive and when there are strong unequal power dynamics, that abuse can take place and also be really easily covered up. We need to make sure, moving forward, that faith communities are inclusive and that no one feels inferior, so everyone feels empowered and able to stand up to abuse, and that abusers therefore aren't protected because they are seen as more powerful or more worthy than the person that they're abusing. They are seen as more powerful or more worthy than the person that they're abusing. I believe that faith communities can be at the forefront of safeguarding, making sure that everyone feels listened to, empowered and that we are all safe and respected. Join us for part two in the next episode, where we'll be tackling the tough topics of criminal convictions, low-level concerns and abuse in faith. We'll also look at the importance of volunteers in safeguarding and how their engagement is key. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us on this episode of Faithful Safeguarding. We hope you found our discussion insightful and inspiring. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us improve and reach more people dedicated to safeguarding of faith communities. If there is a person or organization who you think would benefit from this episode. Please hit the share button For additional resources and information. Visit our website at petrosorguk. Resources and information visit our website at petrosorguk. Stay tuned for our next episode, where we'll continue to explore important safeguarding topics with leading experts. Until then, stay safe and keep making a difference.